Jim Lenz, GEAPS:
This Whole Grain episode may spark new ideas and will certainly broaden your perspective on the vital connections between grain and energy. Let’s get started. Podcast. My name is Jim Lenz, your host and producer of the show, and director of global education and training at GEAPS, where the mission of the Grain Elevator and Processing Society is to champion, connect and serve the global grain industry and our members. At GEAPS we work to be the global grain community and thought leader for the grain industry, which feeds and fuels the world. Thanks for listening today and for joining the network of thousands of other grain handling and processing professionals across the globe taking strategic steps to grow professionally. The Whole Grain Show will give you the competitive advantage to win at work so you can make more of an impact. Before we continue, here is a brief message from a sponsor of today’s episode. Located in Bradford, Illinois, Macon Construction is a premier hoop building construction company for bulk commodities, from engineering to concrete work. Macon Construction controls more aspects of the building project, which allows them to deliver quality while meeting tight deadlines at a lower cost. Macon Construction is a full-service commercial construction firm that offers the most economical commodity storage under a permanent roof. Learn why more and more grain industry leaders are turning to a MAKON building for their next grain storage investment. Come and visit them at the GEAPS Exchange or contact them today at makongccom. That’s M-A-C-O-N-G-C dot com.
Jim Lenz, GEAPS:
Our special guest in today’s episode is Robert White. Robert is a Senior Vice President, industry Relations and Market Development at the Renewable Fuels Association. The Renewable Fuels Association, or RFA, is the leading trade association for America’s ethanol industry. Collectively representing the majority of US ethanol industry leaders and supporters, RFA is working to drive expanded demand for American-made renewable fuels and bioproducts worldwide. Robert White leads RFA’s various consumer education and marketing efforts. In addition to strengthening RFA’s visibility and managing its active market development team. Robert works with petroleum marketers and retailers, state and federal agencies, commercial fleets and individual consumers to increase awareness about the benefits of ethanol and encourage greater development and use of renewable fuels. Widely recognized as an expert on ethanol-related issues and the variations between ethanol-blended fuels, robert frequently provides guidance and technical information to ethanol industry leaders. Robert White brings invaluable insights into renewable fuels and the critical role they play in our industry and beyond.
Jim Lenz, GEAPS:
Whether you’re curious about the future of biofuels or the impact of ethanol in production on grain markets, this episode is for you. Let’s dive into the conversation. All right, we are excited to bring in special guest Robert White from RFA. His expertise is in the ethanol market and development and has a great connection to the grain industry. We are really excited about what is coming up here at our GEAPS Exchange having a big focus on processing industry and, Robert, you may see him on stage as a panelist there having some great discussions. Today we are going to be talking about all things biofuels, including sustainable aviation fuel, saf and its impact on the grain industry. Robert White, thank you very much for making time in your day to connect with Whole Grain Podcast listeners. Of course. Thanks for the opportunity. Now we have listeners on this show who come from a variety of backgrounds within the grain industry, who have a variety of levels of experience. So just to help support big picture-wise, could you tell our audience why ethanol is a win for all?
Robert White, RFA:
Sure. So when I came into the industry almost 25 years ago, we were looking at commodity prices, in particular corn prices that were sub-production cost right. So we were seeing a lot of government intervention and keeping farmers afloat and the goal was to look at value-added agriculture. And there were many different approaches out there. But what we started to see was many groups of farmers across the Midwest Corn Belt looking at what would happen if we build an ethanol plant. Would it change the basis? Would it raise the overall cost of grain, not only for them but for all farmers across the country? And when we started looking at feasibility studies, that’s exactly what they said. And so you saw many communities over 200, in fact start to pool money together. Some were taking money from places they probably shouldn’t have been, but all in all we had a lot of growth in the ethanol industry. It was by the corn farmers trying to help themselves out, make the corn industry profitable, and in turn you saw that trickle down effect over the last 20 years.
Jim Lenz, GEAPS:
That’s a great introductory background, the reason for the support of it. Now let’s kind of look at the current landscape of ethanol. How would you describe the current state of ethanol and what key trends are driving its evolution currently?
Robert White, RFA:
Well, the state of the ethanol industry is very strong right now. We’ve seen what we expect. We’ve got a few weeks left in the year, but we expect record exports. We expect record corn grind and maybe even record production overall, and that’s really been driven by several things. We’ve been looking at carbon intensity and reduction of greenhouse gases these past several years, and so ethanol has always had that ability and always had that benefit, all at a cost savings where most of those avenues of approach actually increase cost or cost you more. And then you add, on top of that strong policy, strong RFS renewable fuel standard.
Robert White, RFA:
The past few years, the lack of small refinery exemptions, a lot of political support in the headwinds and in those growing exports have made the ethanol pretty strong. We are currently going through a new phase as we speak, with a new election and a new president returning and President Trump. Of course there were some ups and downs and so we’re looking at not only getting Congress in a place where we want them, with new elected officials and, of course, new supportive staff, but also the administration, as those cabinet positions start to fill out.
Jim Lenz, GEAPS:
Excellent. You know one of the trends, I think, finding more and more the byproducts of processing industry, like for ethanol production, for example. But can you touch on some of those trends you’re seeing in byproducts of the processing industry?
Robert White, RFA:
Yeah, absolutely. When I started it was basically three equal parts coming out of the one kernel, third, ethanol. Third, distillers grains, which is the high protein, livestock feed, and CO2. And what we saw over the past couple couple decades is the need to diversify. So if ethanol markets are down, what can we do to enhance the co-products or byproducts and make sure they’re valuable and can offset some of those lower market times? And so you’ve seen ethanol production facilities starting to spin off corn oil, corn distillers oil. Now you’re seeing some fractionation at the front so you can make cellulosic ethanol out of that fiber. And you’re seeing some facilities looking at biodiesel or even renewable diesel making that from the oil. So you’re seeing a lot of more. Biorefineries is maybe a better way to encompass it today, but by and large it’s trying to do even more with the same amount of corn and I think that’s pretty valuable and should be exciting for those listening, because while the corn industry, the corn production numbers, continue to grow, we’re doing all we can to absorb more of that and grind more.
Jim Lenz, GEAPS:
Thank you, great response. Another thing just for people to understand. Not everybody may know, but when a kernel of corn comes into an ethanol plant, what is the duration of time between when it turns into ethanol?
Robert White, RFA:
Yeah, so the duration of time from when a kernel hits the hammer mill and comes out the back end of ethanol is usually just over a couple of days. Some facilities have different timeframes based on the fermentation process that they use and how quickly logistics picks up that ethanol. But you’re seeing a very quick turnaround and while you’re seeing almost 40% well, actually there’ll be a little over 40% of the corn crop should go into ethanol production this year.
Jim Lenz, GEAPS:
So we’re seeing a change in market for grains. What role do grain-based biofuels play in this evolution, especially for corn, soybeans and sorghum producers?
Robert White, RFA:
Yeah. So I think the big note is just that additional market. So you have bases that have flipped from where they were before. The ethanol industry expanded, and that’s true of corn and sorghum going into ethanol. But on the soybeans side they’ve seen the same response, because you’re competing for those acres and the value of all products were grew, and so you had not only on the soybean side, you had the biodiesel and now renewable diesel. We were also competing in different fuel markets, but we were competing for the same grain and same acres in the end, and so I think we’ll continue to see that. Obviously, commodity prices are a little lower than most would like, and it’s important to note that the ethanol industry profitability is usually higher when the corn is above production value, and part of that is because corn tends to chase petroleum in the market versus ethanol chasing petroleum. So higher corn prices do not mean that the ethanol industry is less profitable. In some cases we’re even more.
Jim Lenz, GEAPS:
Well, very interesting. Thank you for that insight. I’d like to turn the conversation a little bit to SAF, Sustainable Aviation Fuel. Saf is generating significant interest right now. Why is it seen as such a game changer for both the biofuels and grain industries?
Robert White, RFA:
Well, we’re always looking at abilities to extend the market, whether that’s here or abroad. We’ve obviously been fighting to expand regular gasoline to 15% for well over a decade now, still fighting the political fight, still fighting some regulatory battles as well. That gas tank, that fuel tank is shrinking, whether it’s fuel economy standards or some embracement of EVs. We know that tank is going to get smaller. So if we cannot increase the percentage of ethanol in that tank, we have to look elsewhere, and sustainable aviation fuel is a perfect example.
Robert White, RFA:
The airlines themselves have said corn ethanol is their easiest and most liked pathway and it’s not using ethanol as sustainable aviation fuel. It’s using ethanol as a feedstock to make the sustainable aviation fuel. And the beauty for us and everyone listening is it takes 1.6 to 1.7 gallons of ethanol to make one gallon of SAF and the lofty challenge right now is 3 billion gallons by 2030. So you’re looking at well over 5 billion gallons of additional demand. In this case it could be corn ethanol and if that were the case, we would have to start not only sustaining production and expanding within our internal or existing facilities, but we probably have to build new facilities and that should be music to everyone’s ears and, at the same time, hopefully reduce the climate change burden of the airlines with a cleaner burning product that we can make over and over again each year.
Jim Lenz, GEAPS:
Wow, that is exciting. I was just going to ask you what are some of those biggest opportunities and challenges for grain processors and handlers in this new market. You kind of touched on that. Anything else you want to add?
Robert White, RFA:
No, I think what we’re going to see is predominantly the SAF locations. They’re either going to be co-located in some fashion with the existing ethanol producers or they’ll be at the end of the airport pipeline where they take their fuel into the facilities. So, by and large, I think the grain facilities will not have a lot of impact based on SAF, or where those SAF facilities are built, we will be using a lot more of that product, should that come to fruition.
Jim Lenz, GEAPS:
Wow, neat. With sustainable aviation fuels’ potential to disrupt markets, how can grain industry stakeholders position themselves to benefit? And also, are there any partnerships or innovations already making an impact right now?
Robert White, RFA:
Yeah, we’re starting to see some of the sustainable aviation fuel leaders. We actually have them in our membership at the Renewable Fuels Association. So we’re kind of standing shoulder to shoulder in this fight to get SAF to the finish line and at the same time, make sure that corn ethanol can participate On the grain handling side. I think it’s just going to be not a lot of change because it’s going to be what they’re expecting. There’s going to be more grain coming out of the fields, there’s going to be more grain processed at the production facilities that are existing or that will be built, and then eventually the ethanol will make its way to the SAF facility. So I think it’s what everyone knows, that there’s going to be bigger crops down the road and we’re going to have to have the logistics and the facilities to store them and to move them.
Jim Lenz, GEAPS:
There’s great increased awareness on the importance of this industry. What misconceptions about ethanol still persist in your mind, and how can grain professionals help correct them?
Robert White, RFA:
Well, I like to say that we’re all in this together. Them. Well, I like to say that we’re all in this together. If ethanol is successful, then grain handling, grain processing, the farmers and ag in general is going to be better off. And so we have the ones that we always hear.
Robert White, RFA:
The most commonly is food versus fuel. You know we’re taking food out of humans’ mouths when anyone in the industry understands what number two corn is and that all that we use for ethanol in the ethanol production process is a starch and I always make the joke as I look around our waistlines we have plenty of starch in this country, we’re not deficient in any fashion and so I think it’s important to note that the food that that number two corn would have been used for still exists. It comes up in the back end as distiller’s grains and that’s still fed to the same livestock it would have in the beginning. And then you go from there and it’s still fed to the same livestock it would have in the beginning. And then you go from there and it’s whether it’s cheaper to make.
Robert White, RFA:
Is it still subsidized? And, of course, the subsidy answer is no. That ended well over a decade ago and it just goes on from there. Is it really important? Is it really renewable? Is it better to have domestic fuel supply? And I think we can all agree, especially as we see things heat up around the world again, that having domestic energy, having domestic fuel supplies, is going to be important and maybe more important going into the future.
Jim Lenz, GEAPS:
Great insight. Again, thank you so much. How can Jeep’s Green Elevator and Processing Society we as an organization support an awareness campaign for biofuels?
Robert White, RFA:
Well, I think you’ve already started. I mean, this is a good example. We plan to get more engaged. We’ll be at GEAPS Exchange in Kansas City coming up in February, but I think it’s important that the advocacy goes all the way down through your system and even ends up in the farmers, and so when they’re having those coffee shop talks and they’re talking with their fellow farmers or someone that’s maybe on the fence I mean, whether it’s E10, e15, e85, or just a simple value to not only the corn farmer but agriculture in general I think it’s important to have at least a cliff notes and so you can have that conversation. And we have that and we’re hopeful that we can continue to work on any kind of advocacy through Jeeps.
Jim Lenz, GEAPS:
Thank you so much. We appreciate that Working together of advocacy through Jeeps. Thank you so much. We appreciate that Working together, looking forward to seeing you and others in the processing industry at Exchange 2025 and beyond. Now, advocacy is key to market growth. What role do state and federal policies play in shaping the future of biofuels and how can industry professionals in your mind engage effectively?
Robert White, RFA:
Well, it’s always important that those in agriculture remain loud, if you will, with their elected officials, whether that’s state or federal, and most of the reason, or the logical reason behind that, is they’re not from those areas anymore.
Robert White, RFA:
We’re seeing more and more disconnect from rural America to our elected officials, and that’s true at state and definitely at federal levels, and so it’s important to advocate for agriculture, it’s important to advocate for biofuels and, in this case, ethanol, specifically to make sure they understand the impact back home, and the best way to do that is through those personal experiences, those personal stories. I’m from a town of 3,200 in Kansas, and the biggest thing that ever happened to that town since the railroad was, in fact, the ethanol plant that was built there 20 years ago. So it’s exciting to see. I’ve lived it firsthand, and many of the listeners have too, and that’s what they need to relay. So if you have a champion on ethanol, that’s one of your elected officials. Thank them for all they’ve done and what they’ll continue to do, and, if not, please help them get educated, including their staff.
Jim Lenz, GEAPS:
That’s interesting. You said that. I mean, I spend time working in a small community and one of the biggest things that’s happened again in the last 15 years was an ethanol plant that has been there. So we’re seeing that more and more, of course, and we’ll continue to see that. Now let’s take a look about well beyond the US. How do you see the global market for biofuels evolving, and what role will US grain producers play?
Robert White, RFA:
Yeah, it’s going gangbusters as we speak. Like I said, we are going to see record exports of ethanol this year. Close to 2 billion gallons of ethanol will be exported this year. And, of course, our number one market is Canada. On tariffs, and not just for Canada, but will we have reciprocal tariffs for Brazil? And what will the rest of the world look like?
Robert White, RFA:
And we’re seeing strong policy around the globe to enhance biofuels and ethanol specifically, just look at India. India has a billion and a half people and they have an E20 or a 20% ethanol mandate by 2030. And they do not have the corn, they do not have the ethanol production. They’re going to need the United States to do that and if we provide that directly, great. If we have to backfill other markets that other countries fill, then so be it.
Robert White, RFA:
But it’s going to be big stories like that and policy changes around the world that are going to enhance that, and it’s really a couple things going on. It’s the climate conversation, lowering the greenhouse gases, and then, at the same time, ethanol is still a cheaper product than traditional gasoline. So it’s kind of a win-win for all of these countries, whether they are producing the ethanol yet today or they plan to in the future and we’re starting to see other countries, like Japan and China, start to revisit these conversations. So the global market is huge and it’s pretty exciting if you’re sitting back and hoping to see that conversations. So the global market is huge and it’s pretty exciting if you’re sitting back and hoping to see that grow.
Jim Lenz, GEAPS:
Yeah, I was just about to say that I mean, that is pretty exciting in the global market. I did not know that about India, and other countries are certainly considering that, and so that they aren’t big producers, those grains have to come from somewhere. So, oh boy, talk about dynamic and evolving on the landscape of green production, green handling and green processing. Wow, all levels of the supply chain, for sure. Are there specific regions or countries where US produced ethanol is gaining momentum, maybe more than another?
Robert White, RFA:
Well, I mean, some of these markets are still relatively small, so they can move quite quickly up and down.
Robert White, RFA:
As I mentioned earlier, canada by far is our number one importer of US ethanol.
Robert White, RFA:
And then you go around the world and it covers the globe, and that’s exciting because what we’re seeing is more adoption, maybe in a case like India, as we just mentioned, at a quicker pace than we’re embracing it ourselves just mentioned, at a quicker pace than we’re embracing it ourselves, and so there’s always room for growth here in the US, to again educate our elected officials, our regulators, to make sure they understand the importance, because in some countries around the world they’ve already seen that and are moving faster than we are, and so we remain vigilant with our export initiatives and making sure that we’re on those trade missions. We’re hosting a group from Japan just next week and it’s one of those things where we have to make sure that when they start to look at what is our best approach, moving forward, is that electric vehicles? Is that flex fuel vehicles? Is that ethanol? Is it something else? So we’re right there at the table making sure they understand the opportunities and our ability to fulfill that demand.
Jim Lenz, GEAPS:
Wow, you’re right. What a role you and your organization play in the greater grain industry, for sure. How long have you been in the ethanol?
Robert White, RFA:
or biofuels industry. Robert Well, I came in the summer of 2000, so approaching year 25, as we speak and I’ve been at the RFA since 2008.
Jim Lenz, GEAPS:
Wow, exciting, Great experience. So, given that, as a context here for my next question, what excites you? You know big picture, what excites you most about the future of biofuels?
Robert White, RFA:
particularly in relation to the green industry. Yeah, I mean, I think the biggest thing is these new use opportunities. So we’re looking at I mentioned, we talked about SAF, right Sustainable Aviation Fuel huge market. Even if we’re a small piece of that overall demand and supply that demand that will be game changing for the ethanol industry. But we have numerous others.
Robert White, RFA:
There are companies that are wanting to use ethanol to make hydrogen.
Robert White, RFA:
There are companies using ethanol today to make renewable chemicals.
Robert White, RFA:
We have projects ongoing right now to use ethanol as a diesel replacement in diesel engines and we even have research ongoing right now at Purdue University that’s combining ethanol with biodiesel without any sort of conversion in existing diesel engines. So all of these markets are hundreds of millions of gallons, if not billions of gallons each, and if any of them come to fruition and get some traction, then we’re really moving this industry into the future and it doesn’t have to solely rely on the fuel tank here in the United States or abroad. And so that’s exciting because once we establish those new uses, then other countries around the world will say oh, we can make renewable chemicals, we can replace diesel, we can maybe use ethanol and make hydrogen all these other opportunities so we can maybe use ethanol and make hydrogen, all these other opportunities, and it just you know, all tides rise, all boats, and that trickles back all the way down to the corn farmer and all the logistical demand and needs in between and it’s going to be pretty exciting. I’m liking it to the.
Jim Lenz, GEAPS:
Wild West that we saw in the mid-2000s when all these ethanol plants were being fundraised and ultimately built. Robert White, thank you very much for your service. Could you tell a little bit about your background and then your move into the ethanol industry? And we both know both organizations know GEAPS and your organization that we are looking for curious people working for people who are disciplined and exciting about opportunities and there are opportunities in this industry. So you can speak to all in general, but also certainly would like you to address those maybe coming from the armed forces and looking for some opportunities. Please tell our listeners why this might be an industry they may want to pursue.
Robert White, RFA:
Yeah, so I’ve really only done two things in my background since graduating high school, and that was joining the US Army, served four of my seven years of active duty overseas and then had two years each in the National Guard and Reserves, and once I finished up at Kansas State in ag economics, I entered the ethanol industry. So it’s a very welcoming industry to veterans and service members, and I always like to talk about that. 16 to 17 percent of all of our employees in the US ethanol industry are veterans, and that’s the highest across any energy sector, including petroleum. It almost doubles petroleum. The one thing I like to think about is there are so many veterans that come from rural America. It’s only natural that they gravitate to the ethanol industry because of where its footprint is found, and so that’s exciting for us.
Robert White, RFA:
We even have an initiative at the RFA called the Veterans for Renewable Fuels. It’s a group where veterans that are somehow connected to the ethanol industry can get together. We do have some fun, but it’s there for times of need as much as anything, and so we welcome veterans with open arms. The RFA itself is 30% veteran Our CEO, Jeff Cooper, and our director of EH&S, Justin Schultz, who actually is still in the reserve and just got promoted, or will be getting promoted, to lieutenant colonel. So we’re a proud bunch amongst veterans and we welcome them with open arms in the ethanol industry because they’ve proven themselves quite well.
Jim Lenz, GEAPS:
Wow, excellent, great words of wisdom right there and showing appreciation for those who have served, and I will leave a link for your organization and what you just referenced there in that sentiment. So thank you so much. Wow, that is so exciting. I learned such a great change and dynamic ever evolving a market and I’ve also learned that there is so much research, emphasis on multi-uses of grains and grain processing and product use and product implementation. That’s really exciting and there’s a lot of people behind it and there’s a lot of great organizations like your organization. Any final thoughts or recaps or key takeaways for listeners of the Whole Grain Podcast before we conclude?
Robert White, RFA:
Well, as I said earlier, just become an advocate. This is important to all of us that are listening, and if you need more information, you can always visit our website. It’s ethanolrfa. org.
Jim Lenz, GEAPS:
Perfect. Robert White, thank you for being a guest in the Whole Grain Podcast On behalf of the whole GEAPS organization. We are so excited to get you on the show. Thank you Well. Thanks for having me and we’ll see you in Kansas City. Thanks for joining us on this episode of the Whole Grain Podcast. A special thank you to our guest, robert White, for sharing his expertise and passion for renewable fuels. We hope this discussion has sparked new ideas and broadened your perspective on the vital connections between grain and energy.
Jim Lenz, GEAPS:
Don’t forget to subscribe to the Whole Grain Podcast and share this episode with your colleagues. For more industry insights and updates, stay tuned to the Whole Grain Podcast. You can catch all the past Whole Grain Podcast episodes by going to jeepscom slash whole grain. You can also catch the show on your favorite podcast apps, such as Apple podcasts, amazon music, pandora, spotify and more. Hit the subscribe button so you can catch up on past episodes and when new episodes are released, you’ll be informed right away, as it’ll be available on your device.
Jim Lenz, GEAPS:
We think the entire grain handling and processing industry for doing your part to feed and fuel the world, as well as facilitate thousands of other products that stem from grain. Your work is important. Stay informed and connected by visiting www. GEAPS. com. That’s G-E-A-P-S dot com. The Whole Grain Podcast offers a terrific opportunity to spotlight your business. If you and your organization want to sponsor an episode and be a featured guest, or if you would like us to help you create and place an audio commercial on and for a future episode of the show, please reach out to me. Jim Lenz, director of global education and training at GEAPS, the grain elevator and processing society. My email is James at james@geaps. com. We look forward to connecting with you. Have yourself a great day and thanks for listening to Whole Grain.
